Podcast Ep 14: Leadership Buy-In for Successful Change

by | Jun 17, 2024 | Podcast | 0 comments

Video Transcript

Today, we’ll be talking about leadership buy in for successful change. What’s the one thing you can do to ensure your leaders are fully bought into any change before it’s too late. Keep listening to find out. Welcome to harmonious workplaces, a podcast about corporate culture, organizational change management and workplace behavior.

Harmonious workplaces was started by independent consultants, Rich Cruz, Ben Kleinman and Cheryl Volpe. Learn more at harmoniousworkplaces. com. To explore, challenge, and build on various organizational culture and change management concepts. It’s a blend of theory and practice based on their personal and professional experiences working with companies of all sizes across various industries.

If you own a business, lead a team, want new ideas about the corporate environment, or just want to listen to a group of consultants talking about how to make work more enjoyable, we invite you to sit back, relax, and enjoy. Dive in with us to Harmonious Workplaces. [00:01:00] Hello, Harmonious Workplace listeners. As always, I’m glad you’re with us today.

I’m Rich Cruz, joined by my colleague, Cheryl Volpe. Hi, everyone. Hi, Rich. Hey, and Ben Kleinman. Hey, Ben, Ben’s fresh from New York and I’m in the Chicago area and Cheryl’s in the Philly area, is that right? That is correct. Okay. So, and today we’re going to be talking about leadership buy in for successful change.

So one of the reasons why this came up for me just for a little context is In those instances where change is not going all, all that well, you know, you can really kind of narrow it down to, do you have leadership from a, you know, buy in from above from, from the leadership and see change doesn’t always occur.

It doesn’t always start from above, right? It could happen [00:02:00] somewhere lower in the chain, right? So when you don’t have that. That leadership support that sponsorship, things can go. Right. Yeah. And I’ve, I’ve, I’ve seen this happen with several different projects. I’m no, I don’t know about you too, but boy, that’s, that’s a hard one to overcome a.

Absolutely. And the idea that change meets with resistance by its nature, that buy in is so important to break that resistance down. It’s wonderful. Best ways to break that resistance down. So when it’s missing, you’re starting, you’re starting on the back foot. Totally agree. Yeah. I mean, we’ve all seen where if you’re talking about from the bubble bubble up type of approach or from the grounds up type of approach where people might have a idea that seems pretty reasonable, even if it’s something small, without any kind of management buy in or leadership buy in, it just Stagnates [00:03:00] and sometimes people just roll with it.

And sometimes that can lead to lots of frustration and it doesn’t often take a lot to get that little idea implemented, especially when it’s a good thing. But if it doesn’t have some kind of support, Cheryl, like, you know, you, you were saying it just dies on the vine, then that can be frustrating for people too.

So I’ve seen it. It doesn’t, it doesn’t always die on the vine. It depends, as we have said before, the culture of the environment. If there is an openness to a decentralized decision making process, where things will eventually bubble up into a crystallized agenda or momentum, then leadership can get on board and help push it through in the ways that they have the responsibility and accountability to do.

So, but if that is not part of the culture, then that is rather than a grassroots movement in a positive direction. It becomes more like [00:04:00] infighting back channeling and could be toxic after a while for sure. I, I recall, I think I referenced this in an earlier episode when I was going through this OD and change leadership certification course for the Drucker School we used a Harvard business challenge as like an exercise, right?

That it’s, it’s, it’s available through the Harvard business library. And one of those was, it was. What levers can you pull to make change happen, right? And to, and to, and to, to help it, you know, facilitate it. And you would think that the first one was get the CEO to buy into this thing, but that was not the case, right?

Because in order to get the CEO to buy into this thing that started at the manager level, right? Somebody had, somebody had the ability to have the purse strings and, and, and make. [00:05:00] Change start in order to get to. The, the head honcho there, what you needed to do was have a plan, right? And so Ben’s always talked about, you know, you got to have this crystal clear, crisp vision, right?

And it doesn’t always that doesn’t always come from, you know, above so having this plan that you can show the, you know, basically the executive sponsor, hey, you This is what we’re going to be doing. And this is how we’re going to do it. That gives them the confidence, right? To, to buy into this. I tried pulling that lever.

Let me see, like, 4 times. And every time you do it, there’s like, some expensive time. Right? And it would say, no, you, you, you, you kind of that’s, this isn’t the right time for it. So you like, wasted 4 days or something like that. And you’re in your. Process, I think we had, like, 90 days to make this change happen, but it goes to show that, like, you could really be [00:06:00] wasting somebody’s time wasting resources.

If you don’t get now, if you don’t get that, that’s apart from above, but you don’t get it at the right time in the right manner.

Right? And sometimes there are things that you just could not know. About why it’s not the right time, it may seem like it’s the right time to you and your team. And then you go into your boss’s office and they’re like, well, here’s a couple of things you don’t know, which again, goes back to that communication.

You know, for sure.

And and then you come back again, four days later, is that what you did? You’re like, well, I can retool that. I kind of thought that, you know, oh yeah, I could go back and pull that lever four days later after I had this, you know, Going back to Cotter, you know, so if we all go back to earlier episodes, we talked about different change, change models, Cotter’s 8 steps.

[00:07:00] 1 of those is build a guiding coalition. So that’s kind of, you know, building the support. I thought that if I had a few other people on board that I was going to be able to make that happen, you know, in this exercise. And that wasn’t enough. It really came down to like, we had to have like, I think.

The formula was a couple of couple of standing meetings and have a formalized plan. Then we can do that. And it all worked out. That’s so was that that culture’s way of of gaining some kind of buy in and sort of validating the, the need of the idea or the, or the, the cruciality of that idea was to just do.

Okay. We have these standing meetings. We kind of vet it all out and then it’s ready to. Presented that’s a good point, Ben. So we did have kind of a dossier of what that culture look like, you know, so, yeah, I think that was part of the part of the exercise. For sure, because that is going to change, you know, some, some organizations don’t have [00:08:00] that, that type of thing in place.

And some of them don’t even want it. So in your hypothetical exercise with the Harvard Business Review exercise challenge, were you successful with your. Yes, we were, we were successful. We had 2 weeks to spare. We were, that was a good, that was a good thing. Now, putting that in the context of an actual change.

Like, real life change initiative the times where I’ve always had a hard time with having buy in from, especially with, like, software implementation. Right, because executives in my experience, a lot of them tend to not want to get into the software, the technology, because they’re building the business.

They’re working on the business, not in the business and all right. But. Where, like, I had one where I did a a sales force [00:09:00] integration, taught this sales team on the marketing team, how to use the program was trying to foster adoption, but I couldn’t get the vice president or the CEO to want to log into the program, you know, and so they just wanted the reports delivered to them, right?

But that got into the heads of especially the sales team who are like, well, if nobody’s looking at what I’m doing that I don’t need to be doing this, you know, and yeah, so, so the resistance to changing from literally what was I’m going to use my outlook. I want to use my, my, you know, yellow legal pad, or I’m going to use, you know, whatever there, you know, posted notes or whatever else I’ve been doing for my entire career.

I want to continue that route. You know, that, that, that was a hard, a couple of hard habits to break because we didn’t have, we didn’t have a [00:10:00] leadership team that wanted to adopt to the culture. Right? And actually, I mean, just just to be put into what Salesforce is, it’s, it’s a huge cultural shift because you literally have to kind of adopt that, that, the lifestyle, right? I mean, it really is that this is all this whole jargon and everything else you need to be able to talk to talk and do the stuff. So, and I think that’s the same with. Any other software that implementation and somebody does Microsoft or. Salesforce seems to have going for it though.

This like tremendous global, maybe not literally global. Maybe it is global momentum for success. You know, everyone’s like, Oh, Salesforce. Oh, we’re getting Salesforce sales. You know, it was sort of like when Blackberries came into the culture, it was like, Oh, you know, nobody really wanted to be on the leash all the time.

But if you didn’t get one, you felt left out. And there was just buy in in a. Huge kind of external [00:11:00] way for Salesforce. I might be wrong about that, but everybody knows what that is. Everybody loves it and everybody hates it. Rich in this instance, was it the kind of thing where you needed the top? Leader or top tier of leadership to use the system to signal to everyone else that it is now time to embrace the system.

Whereas without that visual cue that that physical, actual cue that the leader is using the system and it’s not just okay or a good thing, but it is now required that the grassroots, the feet on the street won’t actually embrace it themselves. That is exactly and thanks for bringing that around, but that is exactly what turned the tide when the vice president who admittedly said they weren’t a, a techie, they didn’t really, you know, they didn’t really fully [00:12:00] understand.

It didn’t want to go through the, the online training and stuff like that. Right? But when we changed that through some coaching, like I had to, I literally had to go in and have some, you know separate coaching sessions on here’s how some of these administration administrative things work. Here’s how the reports work.

Here’s, here’s how everybody’s doing right. When I was able to demonstrate all of that they started to use it. And when that happened, And we’re in sales meetings and we could talk the talk and everybody was on the same page. Everybody knew what was happening. Yeah, you started, you, you got the rest of the team using this going, Oh, you know, Hey, if you try it, what was really cool was you actually started having people help to troubleshoot other people’s issues.

Oh, yeah. That’s when people take ownership of it. [00:13:00] Right. You know, that was that was really pivotal. I thought that that’s that is exactly when the cultural shift happened. Yeah, I remember that. I remember those meetings where you know, people, somebody would say, well, I tried to do this and, and it wasn’t working.

And then somebody else chimed in and said, oh, but if you do it this way. Then, you know, you’re going to get the results that you wanted, you know, and when that type of thing happened, other people chimed in, perked up notes were starting to be taken, you know, other than that, you had this, like, these looks of disengagement, right?

It’s that moment of enculturation. Yeah, that’s right. That’s had to get that word in and can I just, can I just say that we are now approximately 14 minutes into our episode and you have not slung any acronyms at us. I am so proud of you both. So I want to say this is this is this is like a moment. If you didn’t embrace the moment.

[00:14:00] So rich did when people started in his young, we got close with the cutter model, but we had close. Yeah, I was like, Was it, was it the kind of thing, Rich, when once people started embracing the change and taking ownership, like you were saying, they were advising each other on how to use the system or get the reports to display or share the info that they wanted?

Was that, was that the moment when people started to see the benefits? Of the system, and they could trust the system and trust the data in the system, trust that their colleagues were using it as well. And so nobody was getting some kind of unfair advantage from not using it and keeping their notes private or whatever.

So there’s a little bit of. That social pressure that social pressure, social proof kind of stuff. Yeah, because you had people who were using the system and then you have people who weren’t really using it all that much in group [00:15:00] algorithm. Right, right. And so we end up having this, you know, the, the people who were using the system receiving more praise, you know, reward.

Right. And frankly, their, their performance was better. Right. They, they knew who they were calling. They could report on all that stuff. Right. The other people, when we would have these meetings, it was like, well, I, I kind of remember who I talked to, but I don’t really, you know, and, and when they couldn’t tell the stories of what was happening, they did not look as.

Competent, frankly, you know, and so the people using the system were showing better. They look better to management. They looked more intelligent or more on top of their book of business. They looked like they knew what they were doing. They looked like they were getting value out of the, well, the system was helping them do their jobs more effectively, essentially.

Right. And these were the ones who were [00:16:00] actually closing deals, right? They were, they were actually. So there was results too. There were results and they were validating the decision to bring the new software into the environment. Right. So it, it’s like this closed system of mutual admiration at that point.

Right. And then the profit on top. You know, that’s when you really get that momentum going for sweeping change, right? That’s that’s a great situation because up until that point, you still have people lamenting, you know, in that, you know, we talked about bridges model, you know, in that, that, that, that middle zone there.

You still have people lamenting the old system, like, oh, you know, this is what we used to be able to do in the old system. Right? But when you can see that the new system actually does function actually works and the people who are using it have benefit and. They’re getting the rewards from it, you know, that, that, that, that there’s, there’s a social, um, effect, you know, that ends up happening there where [00:17:00] they’re like, okay, I need to get back on this.

And so to that effect, I had, I had a couple of people reach out to me for 1 on 1 coaching to be able to help them to get up to speed and. You know, take, take their learning to, to the next level. Nice. Did you say take number? Take number. . . Now everybody wants to check. It can get to that. It can get to that point.

I mean, oh hey, can we schedule some time? You know? And then you’re, yeah. Yeah, you’re, I did wanna say booking calendar gets pretty full. Yeah, sure. You’re coaching right? I did wanna say that you are both reminding me of another topic for another time. And it wouldn’t be an episode without me bringing up psychological safety.

When a leader signals this kind of buy in, and not just to change, but differences, diversity, uniqueness. I think what we’re talking about is [00:18:00] signaling. Buy in is important. A type of signaling to everyone. This is the way to go. This is the way that we’re going to move forward now together. I just wanted to bring that up because there is.

Buy in is important in those ways, too. And I know we’ve been talking primarily about software and change of that nature. And Ben, I wanted to ask you with your day to day, you are often bringing change into an organization that has already been endorsed and negotiated by the leaders. Do you have a similar pushback?

Or is that just a no is it, does it not come into play because you’re bringing something new into the environment that’s already been sanctioned? This is a great question. This is a great question. And so before we get there, let’s pause [00:19:00] we’re 19 minutes or so into our episode. So let’s do a quick, quick recap.

We, we, we started off talking about leadership buy in and why that is so important. Rich was sharing a little bit about. An experience where it really took the leader coming in signaling that this is okay, giving people on the team that psychological safety, Cheryl, that you rightly bring up and showing that it is time to embrace this new system in this case.

And when people started using it and seeing the benefits of it and getting results and you started to see. Essentially dollars going in the right direction. The people not using it started to look bad and the people using the system were looking better. And you had that moment of enculturation, but you also had that moment of financial benefit.

And then that’s where I think that tipping point came from those. People on the [00:20:00] fence switching to be from on the fence or laggards to becoming part of the part of that group. That’s that’s moving in the right direction. And so I think a lot of that hinged it. Maybe the change didn’t start with leadership in this case, but the hinge moment came from on high.

And that was really when things took off. If I’m Tracking rich, your example correctly. That’s right. Yep. Okay. So, with that, I think that tees us up for a and answer Cheryl to your question and be that sort of thing that we promised at the top in terms of how do you know that. You know, the 1 thing that you need to have to make your change successful.

Well, we’ve talked about that a lot in many cases, but we, we haven’t quite crystallize that in terms of having your, your leader on board. So I think that that is, is kind of clearly that that necessary thing. [00:21:00] What do we need to do to make sure that our leaders are on board? Well, that’s then the. The nugget that I think we probably should explore in the next segment of our episode here.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So Cheryl, to your question there, there is, there has never been a time that I can think of where, even though a change has been proposed or agreed at a fairly senior leadership level that there hasn’t been. Some kind of resistance or some kind of questioning or some, some kind of tacit or explicit dragging of feet.

And there’s always been not necessarily a spitefulness to it, but. Not necessarily always a good reason for it. So you always have people who say, well, I need to be able to do X and that’s how I get my job done. And the new system or the new process, I can’t really do X or it takes me 17 times longer to do X.

Those are pretty valid things and worth discussing because at the leadership level, that’s rarely the, [00:22:00] the, the, the, the level of detail that the leaders get into. So that’s a, that’s a valid thing. But at the same time, You have so much of that kind of stuff. And then you have people who are just resistant and reluctant to change.

They’re, they’re sort of dragging a bit. I’ve never seen it happen where there’s not some of that, whether it’s, it’s good reasons for change or just dragging of feet change. I think comes down to leaders see things. It’s such a different Altitude that often they see where they want the company to be.

They have a vision of where they want to go. They see something that needs to change at a very holistic level, but they’re not in the details enough or frequently enough to understand why that might be challenging for people in the day to day. And then there’s oftentimes a little bit of a, of a gap in that dialogue.

To where that change can get co created. So the leaders sort of set that [00:23:00] waypoint or the, you know, the pin in the map and say, this is where we’re going. And there’s not often been enough of that. Let’s figure out how to get there together or giving people the psychological safety or the room to say, you can figure out how you get yourself there, but Okay.

If you’re not there by a certain date, you know, that’s, that’s when the cruise ship leaves. So the name holding the boat kind of thing. So that’s, that’s been that’s been my experience so far. Well, thank you for that. So you experienced, even in the most ideal of situations, there’s going to be that spectrum of resistance.

Mm hmm. There’s going to be some element and there’s, there’s always some element and the better, the better situations plan for that and account for that and have that thoughtful sense of how do we co create with bring these people along from the beginning, they have that, like you say, that communication [00:24:00] culture, they have that psychological safety, they have that mentality of saying, look, we know this is, this is Not easy.

We know it’s going to be hard. We know there’s going to be some bumpiness. We don’t know all the bumpies that are coming, but we do know that it’s not going to be swimmingly perfect. And we know this is where we have to go because of X, Y, and Z. We know that you can do it. We trust you and we want you to help us figure out how to get there.

So let’s all do this together. Because if we don’t, we’re going to fail in X, Y, or Z way. We’re going to lose customers. We’re going to let down our patients, whatever that looks like. We know we have to get here. Let’s all make it happen. Those tend to be the ones that go a little bit better that there’s less dragging of feet, if you will.

Okay. Makes total sense. Makes sense. Thank you. Yeah. What do you guys see? Well, I’m so in preparing for this, you know, I was, I was revisiting Kuz and Posner’s the [00:25:00] leadership challenge, which I don’t remember if I mentioned that before, but, you know, there’s a five step five practices of exemplary leadership, model the way, inspire to share, inspire a shared vision, challenge the process, enable others to act and encourage the heart.

These are, these are five elements of, exemplary leadership from these these two researchers. And yeah, the, the, what I found is that when you can have a leader from above I mean, there’s, there’s inspiring this vision, right. And, and telling everybody, like you said, like, We need to be done by this time and we need to, we need to all get on board and, and, you know, being a transformational leader on on that.

But when they, when there is some degree of that model, the way part where they, they show that they are part of the group if that makes sense. I found that that even even if it’s. [00:26:00] Even if it’s at a somewhat superficial level, right. But they, but. You know, you, you know, that they’re, they’re at least you know, engaged in the process in some way, right?

For some part of the day, at least, you know people and people can actually see that when there’s just the, you know, we, we talked about culturally, these artifacts, right? When there’s, there’s some, some evidence that you have the executive leadership, that’s part of the, the new systems that you’re putting into place that I think, you know, You know, it changes the changes the ball game and, and gets people on board.

Right. And those traits of exemplary leaders. And you did say that magical word of transformational, right? That’s a whole thing that is an aspiration for many leaders who would like to be in that transformational role, but it’s, it’s a tall order. And [00:27:00] any amount of signaling or buy in in that culture can help on that road.

It has to be a part of that role. If you’re going to be transformational, you have to give your team that signal that you are with them, like you were saying, and not above them or in this lofty ivory tower, right? I think that being together and, and you know, on the team is Shown when there is the buy-in that we started this conversation with Mm-Hmm.

right. It’s, it’s key to inspiring your team to be in on your vision. Yeah. I don’t think you can have a transformational leader without that. Buy-in. At the same time, you need to give people the ability to have some degree of autonomy and you know, there, there’s the other part of this, [00:28:00] enabling others to act right.

You know, you can, you can tell them from a transactional leadership standpoint, right? This, this needs to be done and needs to be done by this time. This is the way we have to do it. But when you can give them the self efficacy to act on their own accord, you’ll be self motivated and act in the way that they act, but still achieve the same goal.

You know, I think that that’s another thing to to keep in mind, you know, it’s the trust that you were saying, Ben, you did say, we trust that you can do this. Right? We know that you can get from point A to point B. here’s the goals. You know, make it, but in a culture with transformational leaders, that is more likely to succeed for the employees who are already feeling that self efficacy in.

The case of the more laissez faire transactional leaders at the very lowest end of the spectrum, it’s sink or swim, right? There’s, there’s a lot of [00:29:00] fear in that kind of culture potentially. So I’m curious, as we start to summarize some of these things, what is that one thing that you’ve seen where you, you have that leaders in your, in your change?

Are fully bought in. What can you do to make sure that those leaders are fully bought in? What is, is there one thing that you’ve seen that works really well to make sure that even if the leader has said, yes, I like that vision. Let’s go there. What’s that one thing to make sure that person’s fully bought in, or if it’s more of a grassroots thing where you’re saying, Hey, we’re seeing this thing, we need to do this thing.

Come on, let’s do this thing. What’s that one thing to get the leader bought in? Oh, for the way that I see it. Is going back to what Ben’s been saying since episode one is to have that crisp vision, right? But the other thing that I mentioned earlier [00:30:00] in the, in the program was to have a plan. That it’s almost like you’re, you know, they have these star stories.

You ever hear of stars situation, task action results, right? And they, they tell you to do this. There’s my acronym. There’s your It only took, what are we, 40 minutes? 40 minutes. Rich, your students would be ashamed. Yes, probably. That’s right. Well, it wouldn’t be Harmonious Workplaces without an acronym.

So, star. Right. Which is again, situation, task, action, and results. We hear about that often when we’re in jet, when there are job interviews or a resume, right? Where you’re saying, this is what I did. These are the tasks I did. These are how I did it. And this was the end result, right? When you can have a plan that.

That’s what a plan is [00:31:00] basically supposed to do, right? It’s kind of forecast this, right? So here’s, here’s our situation. Here’s our vision. Basically, it’s situation, right? Here are the tasks we’re going to be doing. These are the actions we’re going to be taking to achieve the, you know, to satisfy those tasks.

And then these are the end results that we are going to expect to happen. I found that when you can bring that to leadership because they’re always like. You know, well, what’s this gonna do for me, right? If I’m gonna spend this money, if I’m gonna spend this time, if I’m gonna have my people on the, you know, on this thing, what is that going to deliver that, what value is that gonna deliver to my company?

And you know, when you can satisfy that and, you know, they, they can trust that you’re gonna do that. You tend to get that by anything else. I’m with you. I’m, I’m with you. I think that if the rewards and the benefit can be made clear through crystal clear communication and transparency. And that leader is signaling their [00:32:00] personal buy in professional buy in that is what I think is the number 1 most important thing to motivate your team to have buy in is by.

Those, those steps there and the, it is, it is a system of reward, you know, we did talk about this. What is motivating people to be less resistant to that change? And there has to be some reward in there. And it doesn’t have to be financial, although it. Yeah, it usually be financial. Some can’t just be a pizza party.

That’s right. Don’t, don’t. Yes. Right. Right. There’s a whole. The whole piece I wrote out that one huge slice. Right. All right. Well, let’s let’s summarize. Shall we? Yeah. So let’s do so. Wait, I’m sorry, Ben, did you have. The silver bullet solution to what was your, yeah, right. Silver bullet [00:33:00] solution to all change in one pithy.

Some sense, I think where I’ve seen it work well is when you have the need to, to get a leader to buy in, it’s the same as when it goes the other way around when you’re having a leader trying to get. Someone else on a team bought in, you need to have that clarity of why, and it usually has some kind of component of emotional and intellectual heft behind it.

So if we don’t embrace this New system, new process, new organizational structure, then X will happen. And usually there’s a sort of financial component or a, we will lose a customer or we won’t be able to go after a certain market component. But there’s also somewhat of that. Emotional component to like, we’re going to, we’re going to let down patients who we’ve said [00:34:00] we’ve been meaning to serve for the last 40 years of our company’s history, or we’re not going to be able to live up to our vision of being the best chip maker in the software industry or whatever that looks like.

There’s that, there’s that balance of emotional and intellectual, and it works the same way trying to convince a leader of why to change versus staff member, you might just use slightly different language or have slightly different framing to that story. Sure, that makes sense. That makes sense.

Complete sense. And, and I like the way you bring in, you know, it, it can go both ways, sort of that, you know, top down or the bubble up. And we’ve talked about it before too, but it’s stories are just great ways to bring those needs to life in a very tangible, emotional and intellectual way. Agreed. Yeah, it’s interesting that [00:35:00] and this may be worth some discussion in the future of how you had mentioned.

Some of the negative things that could happen if we don’t do this. As opposed to some of the more appreciative type of questions about what’s the benefit of what we do if we do this, right? So there’s, there’s the. Almost coercive negative consequences of if we don’t do this. This will happen and then there’s this more positive.

If we do this, here’s, here’s how we profit from it. Right. And I’m wondering you know, there’s, there’s certainly research on this and that’s this is not, not, we don’t have time to delve into all that right now, but it would be interesting to see. What leaders respond to better, you know or when those, yeah, right.

For sure. Different markets, different market conditions, different industries, different leadership personalities and styles. And, you know, they might react 1 [00:36:00] way. Yeah, 1 with 1 approach, and they might react the same way with a different approach at a different time or for a different kind of change.

Right? Yeah. And what are those? And there’s, there’s probably also, I’m sorry, Cheryl, go ahead. What are those factors that determine that recipe? Okay. Yeah. If there is, if he, if we can tease that out. Yeah. Yeah, there’s a marketing way. Oh, yeah, I’m sorry. I was going to say in marketing. We have this, like, you’re, you’re looking at a pain point, right?

There’s, there’s, there’s that type of marketing. And then there’s the marketing that’s more of going after what people, what their affinities are, you know, and, and, and what, so some people react to, you know what your problem is and what those solutions are versus, you know, What you know, what, what’s working for you and how can you make it better, you know, right.

Something’s hurting me. So take away the pain or, you know, I’m, I’m, I’m pretty good, but I want to be shinier. Right[00:37:00]


we, we had a moment of silence there. So, but yeah, let’s, let’s do a quick summary and and then we’ll wrap up. So our, what would we say now, Ben, what do you think that that number 1 thing, given everything that we just talked about for the last couple of minutes?

Yeah, I’m putting it on you, man. Yeah, you need, you need, regardless of what change you’re talking about, or whether you’re trying to influence a CEO or Someone on a factory floor or middle management, you need to understand why that change needs to be done, whether it’s whether it’s capturing a positive or avoiding a negative, you need to [00:38:00] understand that you need to be able to relate that very crisply, and you need to be able to speak to people’s emotions and their intellectual assessment of a change.

Stories can help do that.

Waste with different people, depending upon their style. It helps to have psychological safety. All of these things take time and are rarely the kinds of things that can just happen on a dime or on a whim. So there’s a need for some thoughtful planning and rich to get to your point to having that. Plan, whether it’s a star approach or something else having some sort of plan to get you from point A to point B, where you’d like to be.

That’s all super helpful and super, super critical. The map. Yeah. So I know that’s not one thing, but it’s this. Combination of so many different things get that buy in the benefit of getting leadership buy in [00:39:00] is that that can serve as a forcing function or as a tipping point for the rest of your organization or outside of the organization for culture at large for other stakeholders to see that this change is a positive to see that this change is really going to happen.

It is not just like a, something we talk about bury under the rug in six months and to see that this change will have. Positive benefits for the organization and for the external stakeholder group at large, the CEO, or that top tier can make that come to life in a way that most people throughout the, the lower ranks don’t have that ability.

They’re just, they, they don’t have the visibility. They don’t have the voice. They can’t amplify it in the same way. When that top tier the board, the C suite, whatever they, they can make that. Switch happens so much faster, right? Because the spectrum of resistance [00:40:00] is always going to be there. And if you don’t have that buy in that resistance, well, can only grow and things will die on the vine and.

There will be a waste of time and, and effort and they might, or they just might take 4 days to circle back and then you have to come back with your plan in 4 days or 4 days or 4 days, you know, you lose, you wind up losing a lot of time and, and inertia builds up. And what Cheryl said earlier about signaling like that.

That when, when the change of heart happens, or I changed the heart, but like, when, when you have a leader that fully buys into this and says, yes, we’re going to do this and they can model the way empower people, you know, and, and encourage everybody, you know, it’s again, who’s imposers, like, encourage the heart, right?

When they can do that, it sends that signal. Okay. To everybody that, Hey, this is [00:41:00] a very real thing we’re doing right now, and we’re all, we’re all in this, like, this is, this is really happening. Walking the walk, walking the walk. Very good. All right. Good stuff today. Good stuff today. Yep. Well, thanks everybody for tuning in to a harmonious workplaces.

Again, you can find us on all your favorite streaming platforms. We’re on pod bean and YouTube and Apple and all the other places that you can Spotify and all that. So please find us like us. Let us know what you think. And thank you very much for, for joining us today. Thanks very much you guys.

Always goes too fast. Always goes too fast. All right. Thanks a million. All right. See ya. Cheers.

Thanks for listening to Harmonious Workplaces. You can find Harmonious Workplaces on LinkedIn, Twitter, [00:42:00] YouTube, Spotify, Amazon, Apple, and other streaming platforms. We’d love any feedback on whatever channel you find us on. Please rate, podcast with your network, and remember to add Harmonious Workplaces to your list of favorites.

To get notified about each new episode to contact Richard Sherrill, please visit www. workbalanceconsulting. com to connect with Ben, find him on LinkedIn or visit at www. harborsidestrategy. com.

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