Podcast, Ep. 13: Crisis Management

by | Jun 10, 2024 | Podcast | 0 comments

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Welcome to harmonious workplaces, a podcast about corporate culture, organizational change management, workplace behavior, harmonious workplaces was started by independent consultants, Rich Cruz, Ben Kleinman and Sharyl Volpe to explore challenge and build a various organizational culture and change management concepts.

It’s a blend of theory and practice based on their personal and professional experiences. Working with companies of all sizes across various industries. If you own a business, lead a team, want new ideas about the corporate environment, or just want to listen to a group of consultants talking about how to make work more enjoyable, we invite you to sit back, relax, and dive in with us to harmonious workplaces.

Welcome to our 13th podcast, A Baker’s Dozen. At some point, just about every business will go through some kind of crisis. Whether it’s contaminated medicine, an oil spill, a collapsed mine, or less life threatening issues, you can be sure that some kind of crisis will hit your business. The question is, will you be ready?

And what’s the one thing you can do now to minimize missteps when navigating a crisis? Keep listening to find out. Hello, Harmonious Workplaces listeners. As always, we’re glad that you’re with us today. I’m Rich Cruz joined by my colleagues, Sharyl Volpe and Ben Kleinman. And here we are at our Baker’s Dozen episode, episode 13, lucky number 13.

That’s right. And. What better thing to talk about with the number 13 than crisis communication, crisis management boy is, you know, we’ve picked a lucky one today. Haven’t we sure have. We sure have. And at some point, you Everybody, every business goes through some kind of a crisis. And whatever that crisis is for you and your business, I think we can all think of some that are just top of mind when you think of crisis management, crisis communications in the workplace world.

And, you know, there was that Tylenol contaminated medicine and there was the BP oil spill. It was the collapse mine in Chile. Whether it’s those types of things that come to mind or less threatening ones, you can be pretty sure that something’s going to hit your business. Maybe not quite that grave, but something will come along.

And the question is, are you going to be ready for it? So that’s sort of what we thought we would talk about. And one thing there’s, there’s absolutely one thing that you can do right now when you’re not in crisis mode, I hope that will get you ready so that you can minimize any missteps and be better prepared.

So keep listening to find out what that might be. I’m on the edge of my seat, man. What is it? I have to wait. Ah, okay. Well, all right. So there’s one, as I was thinking about crises, one that came to mind for me was the BP oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico. And what I was curious for you guys, what’s one thing that you remember, remember about that event?

What’s, what’s one thing that’s stuck in your mind? Cause we’re kind of a few for me. And so, anything top of mind for you? One thing that came to mind was like, just the fact that everybody knew about this. It became a worldwide phenomenon because it affected so many people. So but the other thing was some of the innovation that happened around that.

Wasn’t there somebody who ended up devising something to remove the, the oil, like, Was it the mesh in that system? Something around that? Wow. We’ve got to do work in a whole different industry. There was that, but yeah, there were, there was, it was advanced containment and dispersants and things like that, but they were also doing all kinds of incredible technology innovations and ways to drill down through the rock to get to, The part where the well had exploded and where the oil was leaking.

And it was something about where that valve was that they couldn’t get to through normal means. So they had to drill this whole thing and it was just incredibly complicated. And I remember there from a communication standpoint I remember there were diagrams and stuff that they were showing about how these things actually worked and yeah, which was really cool.

Yeah. Super fascinating. Sharyl, was there something top of mind for you for that? Absolutely. The wildlife, they rescuers first responders for the animals. I mean, that is just those images. The birds, you know, that horribly classic image of the oil covered birds and the devastation to the ecosystem. Those from another oil spill in Alaska, when you just had these images of this coast worth.

Oil washing up the coast and these birds and seals and all sorts of wildlife where you had people trying to rub the oil off and things like that. It was just, just horrible, just devastating. And Don, Don Dish Soap is still using, they’re still using the connection to their usefulness and, and those crises in their current commercial.

That’s amazing. Good for them. I remember that distinctly. I was like, they’re really using dishwashing or just detergent to, to clean goals. Right. Yeah. As taking advantage of a terrible opportunity. Yeah. Well, and coming back to it too. I mean, it’s still something that everyone, even if you weren’t. Around then, or it was not top of mind for you, it’s something that would resonate regardless.

It’s kind of one of those timeless things. That’s so cool. Good for them. Leadership example of taking. Yeah. Well, and communicating. Taking advantage of, of something in, in the popular media and making a thing of it. Maybe not quite as quite as important as Seinfeld taking advantage of the pop tarts and the popularity of pop tarts right now, but you know, I can’t wait for Friday, man.

I can’t wait for that thing to come out. I really want to see what he does with that. 42. 1 percent of people have no idea what I’m talking about. That’s right. But the, but the other one, 60 something percent were cheers to the man. Can’t wait for Friday either. That’s right. The rest of us, one of the, one of the things for me with the BP oil spill that stood out was their CEO, Tony Hayward at the time coming out on, on social media, basically, I think in an interview, he said, I want my life back.

And this was shortly after the explosion had happened. And, and there were 11 workers that had died in that. And it was spilling something like 100, 000 gallons per day into the Gulf of Mexico. And I’m sure he didn’t mean for it to come out that way, but that’s the way it came out. And that just exploded.

That was all over. That was all anyone saw when they thought you know, let me get an update about the situation in the Gulf. And that just took over the narrative. And so here you have this, this narrative that is no longer about a situation that could be so completely. Unique and, and, and innovative with the stuff we were just talking about in terms of capturing the oil with nets and dispersants and capturing all these new technologies and innovative ways to drill down and, and seal off this well, it’s gushing.

You had this completely asinine comment out there that was just taking over. And so I think that’s where they, they, they sort of lost the thread. They lost the plot and it was really hard for them to recover as a company. I mean, Hayward was gone after that. That was, that was sort of like the end of his, his utility as a, as a manager, as a, as a leader at BP.

But I think that the, the thing that to me stood out was that that was a moment where they, they really just lost. Their, their way with communications with their management of the communications in that moment in that crisis. And so I think that’s, that’s rich where maybe we can come back to some of those things that we’ve talked about from a timelessness perspective and a communications perspective.

And Sharyl, I know that’s, that’s huge for you, as you always say. Bring us back to communication, communication, communication, being that first critical thing. So maybe we could dive into some of those things that we’ve talked about before and that we see as, as maybe being useful in managing a crisis and communicating throughout a crisis.

What’s top of mind for you guys? Well, I mean, I, using the Hayward example, right? I mean, I, I, I think it does point to that these crises, as much as they’re a business problem, they are a very much a human problem. You know certainly that leader. His emotional intelligence was spent, right? But we, we have people anywhere in the organization that, you know, it could be, it can be a small crisis.

It can be a large 1, whatever. But people are going to have some emotional reactions. To what’s happening, right? And, and it’s normal, it’s natural, you know, but they, we, we need to be able to manage that, manage ourselves. But, but, you know, help, help others to manage that or things can wildly.

You’ll spiral out of control, the tire fire, right? I mean, we were talking about comfort with ambiguity and what could be more ambiguous than. A crisis out of nowhere, right? And. Even if there are communication models in place or plans or evacuation drills or training, what is at the core of that response?

But the, the traits of the people at the core of the situation in a position to provide answers and solutions. And that is another example of having that comfort with ambiguity,

which overlays overlays with some of the things we’re going to talk about. Sure. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. No, I think that’s true. And for me, it also comes back to what are the key values of your organization and can your leaders quickly pull those in and reference those and use those as anchors essentially. So regardless of whether you’re in a press conference or you have something that’s prepared ahead of time, do you know how to reference those and have those feed in?

And usually those values and, and your company’s mission are pretty timeless and noble kinds of things. So they help you orient and, and. Frame any kind of a message and, you know, something we’ve talked about, you were just saying, share our comfort with ambiguity, but also this idea of communicate, communicate, communicate.

We’ve talked before about communicate what you know and what you don’t know. And so that comes through when you anchor to your values and you can say, well, we, we don’t know, but as an organization. We believe in X. And so we’re going to do everything we can to do right by our people, according to our value of X or Y or Z or whatever that is.

And so it gives you that sort of rock to stay and communicate outwards from, as opposed to just kind of swirling in that soup of emotional spentness. Yeah. And you Ben, from the beginning, you’ve, you’ve always said, you know, you need to have this clear, crisp vision. That’s yeah. Those, those I, I go to bed at night, sometimes hearing Ben say clear, crisp vision, but it’s so, it’s so key to this because, you know, The, the, the, the, the natural reaction is, you know, we, we, we get into that fight or flight mode and, and we’re kind of like, I don’t want to do this anymore.

Right? I, I’m, I’m done with this. You know, I’m either going to fight it or I’m going to walk away from it. That’s, that’s kind of the inclination that we have when, when we’re faced when we’re facing a crisis. But when you can have somebody who says, wait, wait, wait, hold on. Yeah. And I’ve had coaches that have helped me through this through various different business crises, right?

Where that pesky. 2008 recession, you know, I’ve had some people helping me through that. Right? You know, you need to see where that, what, what that goal is. What’s that objective that we’re trying to reach, right? Okay. We’ll navigate through this. We’ll navigate through the muck, the, the, the oil spill of whatever’s happening there.

And, but really we need, we need to get to the other shore. You know, that’s, that’s and it’s critical. And I think that, you know, being, being very clear and crisp about that. But also being empathetic at the same time. Yeah. Yeah. One of the things that we’ve talked about a lot on our shows so far, is this idea of psychological safety and that being really critical from a foundational perspective so that people can bring them.

The, their best selves to work so that people can feel free to share ideas or create or co create or suggest ways of doing things that might be completely new or different or react in some way that says, Oh, that’s an interesting idea. I totally disagree with it, but let’s think through that with, with each other.

Dialoguing. Do you think in a crisis, there’s room for that psychological safety? Or do you think that, I mean, for me, in my head, I feel like if it’s not there already, it’s really hard to create that in a crisis moment. But what you would love to see is the organization have that already there. And then you can take advantage of that in a crisis because you say to your engineers, go figure out how to deal, drill through miles of ocean and miles of seabed.

And I don’t care what it costs. I don’t care what it takes. Just figure it out. And people say, all right, we’re going to rally around that. Or we have to get these miners out of a collapsed mine in Chile. We have no idea how we’re going to do it, but you go figure it out. We trust you. We know you’re smart.

And if you don’t have that. From the get go. I feel like crisis is not the time to try to instill that in people. If it’s not there, I think then it’s more like, okay, you’ve got your, your command and control approach and hope that that works. What’s, what’s, what’s been your perspectives? What have you seen work?

It can be challenging enough in a peaceful situation. Let’s say a brainstorming session and a quiet conference room with coffee. I mean, logical safety is not even a given in in that situation. Right. So you add crisis to it. And yeah. Sometimes people really rise to the occasion and even without that psychological safety as a foundation day to day.

Sometimes there are superheroes in a crisis and they make decisions that everyone stands behind and it works out and there is no debate. There is no innovation necessary. There’s there’s no brainstorming in a crisis. You know, unless. There is these, these war room situations where all of the leaders go into a concentrated conversation and it is a laser focus on the solution, you know, Ben, I think you’re absolutely correct.

If it is not already a part of the culture and there was already a sense of intimidation, fear or harassment, and there is no safety crisis, crisis, and even if there’s not that Even if there’s not any of the negatives where you fear repercussion for voicing a new idea, or you fear even just saying something, because you might get the stink eye from your boss, even if it’s just a nice, relatively happy workplace, you still don’t have that psychological safety, allowing people’s ideas to flow in times of, you know, and letting them rise to that occasion, because they know that their opinions are trusted and valued and may not go anywhere, but at least they’re free to offer those things.

And I want to add 1 more thing to that, too, in a crisis, there is a accountability of those leaders. Also, it’s, it’s as if they, they have to have not only the highest risk tolerance, but they also have the highest accountability. So, as a leader. If a difficult decision has to be made, you know, take the shot, right?

That kind of decision sometimes can only be on the leader’s shoulders. That’s why they’re the leaders. Yeah. Part of the job. But I like that idea of heightened visibility of accountability. Yeah, that’s really cool. Yeah. I mean, in a crisis, you will hear above my pay grade out of here. Like, that’s if it’s going to be said, that’s where the colors will come out on that on the culture.

Yeah. And some people, some people are very quick to say, this is above my pay grade. I’m not, I’m not even going to touch that. And other people say, you know, what, I can’t make this decision, but I’m going to offer up 3 ideas. And I think these are all really solid for X, Y, or Z reason. Okay. I want to mention that At this point in time, I have yet to have mentioned an acronym once in this entire conversation.

Very proud of myself on that. I can’t, I’m speechless. I have not one acronym. I know you’ve been training this discipline. All right. I’m I’m fingers crossed. We’ll give you an opportunity. I hope so. I hope so. I don’t have one yet. Okay. But we’ll get there. We might be there sometime. I don’t know. Stay tuned.

Harmonious Workplaces listeners for whether or not Rich Cruz will come up with an acronym for this show. We also promised you one tip that you can use. To make sure that your crisis is not a complete crisis in and of itself and how you manage it. And so we’ll get to that in just a moment. In the meantime, did you come up with your acronym yet?

I have not. I have not. But what I would, what I will say is of this discussion about communication and about crises and, you know, a big change. Thank you very much. Reminds me of, there’s a, there’s a musical my family went to go see the other last year, I think it was, and we were just watching it the other day.

It’s called come from away. I don’t know if you’ve heard of this, but it’s about 38, 38 planes that got diverted to an airport in a small town in Newfoundland during nine 11. Sleepy little town doing their thing. All of a sudden have to host 38 planes when there was, when the skies had nothing in them.

And. Here’s this crisis situation right where you have authorities that are telling you this is what you need to do. Right? And so that psychological safety totally not there and you have a bunch of people high emotions, of course, because of that situation. But even if it, even if it wasn’t as intense as that, right, you still have people who don’t know what’s happening.

Nobody’s being able to communicate with them. Right? But what I’m happening is. You started to get people that were within within the, the, the affected people, right? The, the, the passengers, right? Who were able to start working with the leadership to come up with solutions, right? So 1 passenger was. What about the pets that are on board?

Like, is nobody paid? You can’t leave the pets there without water and their medicine and food and all that stuff. Right? Which totally went against policy, but, you know, you had to go and, and, and take care of these, you know, you know, so you know, other ones, you know, you had just people who were. people who spoke different languages, right?

Like you needed to figure out how can you, how can you allow them to communicate and how can you how can you communicate to them what’s happening, right? So they started building, you know, little sections of, of you know, various different languages that people spoke. I think all that goes, so you can actually take a lot of those lessons from this, from this situation and apply them into almost any change.

Where something goes wrong, right? Because I mean, Murphy’s loss is going to prevail sometimes. But when you allow that, when, when you can actually take a step back and allow people to have the feedback and say, and have a part in some of the decisions being made, what ends up happening at the end of the musical is you have a bunch of people who are.

Sad that basically this project is over and they’re disbanding right now. They’re now they’re leaving people who they bonded with over the last, you know, however long the, the, the situation was, but, you know, it was, it was not just a couple of days. Right? So they, they’ve actually built a culture amongst them.

Based on this crisis and based on all of the changes that they’ve made throughout this time. And now, you know, we were, we’re leaving, but everybody’s, I’m going to say this, everybody’s changed for good, you know another musical, but yeah, I just thought I’d bring that up because I, I, I think this, that was a very, very It kind of illustrates some of what I’m talking about.

Yeah. It’s a, it’s a good example of where there may not have been any psychological safety, but people. Rose to the occasion. And in that case, I’m guessing that the leadership of the airport or the airlines were savvy enough to recognize that these folks were coming up with good ideas and necessary ideas and not ideas that were so against policy that they would have caused major, major problems, right?

I mean, you’re talking about Breaking a rule or two so that you could take care of a pet. Well, if that’s going to make people feel like they have some control, some agency, they’re doing something good and it helps these pets, then of course, let’s do that. It’s not like you’re saying we need to get this plane back in the air.

Now it’s totally different. And so the people in, in charge, quote unquote, would, would be able to say, okay, this is, A low risk change that we can make that will help keep the situation, not just stable, but maybe make things better. People can be with their pets. People can figure out how to communicate with each other in language zones, things like that.

It helps the leadership get the messaging through. It helps people feel like they’re contributing to some kind of a solution and not just waiting and sitting and waiting with no idea and no sense of how to control things. And so, That’s, that’s another thing, you know, we, I think we’ve talked about that a lot, a little bit before about how we want people to feel like they have agency in terms of co creating a change, but maybe that’s, that’s a sort of a way that that that’s come through with with this kind of crisis situation.

At the risk of coming at dangerously close to an acronym theory, Maslow’s hierarchy of needs. I think that it’s so classic and it’s so timeless and so many people understand it because. In a crisis, those airplanes, that town, what was the 1st priority, you know, the lives of the people and the pets, you know, it’s sort of the entire pyramid all at once.

Sure, they needed a fee. They, yeah, they, they, they needed to make sure that they were secure and they, they had their food and all of that stuff, which none of it was. Right. And they had to, they had to work together to make sure all, everybody had all of those needs satisfied to the point of where you know, there was some, some level of self actualization at that top.

There were some people really came into their own, you know, during this, during the situation. With the other horrifying, classic kind of story that everybody knows about the airplane that crashes in the mountains and other decisions ensue. Right? Yes. Yes. That’s a, that’s a totally different change. These, these.

Examples, the one that we were just talking about, Rich, where your musical was this idea of your musical was coming from. It makes me think that there must be some kind of playbook or rubric or framework or some kind of approach that it. Airlines have that airports have when there is some kind of known thing that’s probably going to happen when you run an airline, you’re probably going to have some kind of engine issue and you need ground crew to come fix that before the flight can take off.

You’re probably going to have some kind of issue where flights need to be grounded because of weather. So how do you manage that? So there’s probably something in place. But I think that leads us into the one thing that at least we’ve talked a little bit about. You need to have something like that in place.

And so this is the one thing that people can do as a, as a sort of preparation for crisis when you’re not in crisis, ideally is start to think through what is it that you can imagine happening based on your business world. If for example, you’re an airline, you know, you’re going to have. Groundings. You can’t control the weather.

It’s going to happen. So how do you prepare for that? You’re going to have mechanical issues. Those just happen when you have very complex machines. How are you going to handle that? What you probably couldn’t have ever imagined is a situation like 9 11. How are you, how, how then do you start to think about based on the planning that you’ve done for known.

Crises or situations. How do you extrapolate that for something that could never have occurred to you or hopefully would be like the rarest of the rare type of events? How do you start to plan for that? Yeah. Well, and, and, and that’s just that, that, that’s what they, they were employing these policies and procedures for groundings.

Like, so people were just on the plane For 20 something hours before they decided, well, we probably need to get them out of here because it’s going to be a longer term situation. Right? And and so then it went into some, some more long term long term plans that were made more by the. But the municipality, right, when there’s, when there are emergencies, like you know, like natural disasters and that type of thing.

Right. So that, that type of stuff prevails, you know, and we see that, we see those types of plans from like FEMA in the United States, this was of course in Canada, but you know, where they have these longer term when I was at the Coin Laundry Association, we had people that were that were affected in Texas and Florida by hurricanes.

Right? And so they have, they, they have to quickly adapt to that. And it’s, it’s sort of weird that the businesses there. They’ve got this down pat, like it is, it’s just, you know, it’s a, it’s, it’s a project for them. Oh, we got a board, everything up, get everybody out of here. We’ll be back in a little while.

We put everything back together again, but isn’t that amazing that it’s amazing. It’s, it’s kind of become that and that with a little bit of planning and probably haven’t gone through it once or twice. You kind of get into the sense of, Oh, it’s not it’s a, it’s an issue that we have to deal with, but it’s not a complete crisis where we have no idea how to handle this.

And we don’t know anything about what’s going on and sure it’s not great, but at least we know, okay, board the windows. Unplug the machines, whatever you do, you know, make sure that your sump pump is working, I don’t know, but those kinds of things, you sort of get, get yourself prepared for. So it seems like those, those are all really, really important things to do.

And it helps you figure out who do you communicate with? Is it the municipalities, you know, who’s the mayor, keep all those lists up to date. Make sure that if you’re reaching out to FEMA, you know, the FEMA 1 800 CALL FEMA number or whatever that might be. And so you have all this listed there so that you know, if you’re In a crisis, you’re not going to your, you know, people probably don’t use yellow pages anymore, but you’re not going to the yellow pages and trying to figure out where, where do you start?

Right. So it’s having that playbook in place or at least some kind of outline in place. And then that helps you kind of focus on the things that you need to be communicating with people, rather than focusing on the, Oh, crud, where’s that number? I got to call somebody in FEMA. You’re able to just. Offload that from your brain and you can think about, okay, is it, is it the right thing to do to allow people to go feed their pets and comfort their pets?

I think so. Yeah, let’s, it’s a no brainer. Let’s just do that. Right. And who do we need to talk to for vendors about food or toileting our passengers and things like that? Right? All of those things get you get brain space for that. Right? So, Oh, go ahead, Rich. Oh, no, go ahead, Joan. What I hear you saying, Ben, and Rich both, to answer that question, what can you do before a crisis?

Hits, you can plan and you can do as much training and drilling and sharing of information, building up relationships in your community with each other that are there to rely on when something unexpected happens. And those are things you can control ahead of time, but you have to make time for it and you have to make a priority of it.

You know, I, I have just a quick example as you were talking about it occurred to me. When we had the earthquake recently, right? I wasn’t thinking about standing in the doorway. It took me the entire length of the event to figure out what was happening. How many times have you heard what to do when there’s an earthquake?

That all went right out the window. It wasn’t as if I was remembering those things. So, but can you imagine? If you lived in California, or if you grew up in California, where earthquakes are just almost part of the culture, they’re part of the lifestyle. And so people there, they just go about their, their normal activities and they say, Oh, yeah, that was an earthquake.

And, you know, if you’re visiting from out of town, you’re sort of. Wondering if this is, if this is that moment and they’re just like, yeah, earthquake, no big deal. And so it’s, it’s, it’s, they’re used to it. They’ve gone through it a number of times and they probably are drilled from a very young age, get into that doorway or whatever.

And, you know, it’s, it’s just something that they they’re used to, but I love that idea. I think that’s, you know, if we’re, if we’re wrapping up a show, I think that would probably be the perfect place to leave it. Sharyl was just playing ahead. Like you said. You can plan and be thoughtful about your planning.

You can’t plan for everything, but you can plan the things that you know. Right. And, and you can at least have some framework so that when something happens that you have no idea that you could have planned for. Right. I mean, who would have expected COVID 19, but at least you have something in place to say if for some reason our employees are unable to come to work, let’s say because of an earthquake.

Well, we can extrapolate from that to COVID 19. Not perfect. It’s not great. It’s not ideal, but at least it’s a starting place to say, well, employees can’t come to work. How do we make sure that they’re safe? How do we make sure that they’re able to do some level of work? If that’s important for us, those guys, like you say, it’s that grounding.

Yeah, going back to your airline example, just, just briefly, when you see that serious airline disasters, which we watched almost all of them with, with our son, that pilot has a book and it’s this thick and like, it’s got tabs and he knows where to go. And it’s, it’s exact, you know, everything that has ever that they could plan for, you know, The exact instructions, if everyone had their own version of that emergency pilot book, right?

Would be great. I leave you all with the harmonious workplaces crisis management app, where it’s an AI enabled thing that you would be able to just speak into your device and say, we’re having a crisis about X, Y, or Z. And it gives you the playbook right there. The harmonious workplaces crisis management app.

It’s your idea of the month right there. I love that. I love that. Not just for pilots. That’s not for pilots anymore. Well, you got to work ahead of us. There you go. One, before we, before we wrap this up, one thing I think to add into the plan. Which I, again, kind of taking this off of the, the, you know, what they, what they did in this play, but what you see in some of the other other situations is to celebrate the successes.

Because that, so, you know, one of the things that they did in the play here is that they, you know, they, they ended up having, you know, musicians and stuff, you know, performing and they, you know, they, they got together and people were drinking and they, you know, they were passing out the little bottles of foods to people.

Don’t do that in your. Change management stuff, maybe every time, but but to have some kind of a, some kind of a celebration of we made it, we got through this, you know you can, you can kind of plan for some of that to, you know, like, how are we going to, how are we going to do that? And really make people like raise the, the, the positive affect of people about, you know, what we’ve done that really helps to solidify.

You know, the, the, the, the culture and brings people together in a, in a really much more meaningful way. It’s a great idea. Acknowledge the successes, acknowledge the skills coming to play in crisis and the rewards for that. It’s great plan plan and plan to celebrate cool. All right. Well, I think I think we’ve come to the end of this episode.

Thank you all very much for tuning in. I hope that you’ve gotten some really great actionable things to, to do in a crisis situation in your change initiatives. Thank you. Be sure to follow us at harmoniousworkplaces. com and on your favorite streaming platform, and be sure to like and share us on social media.

Any last words, Ben or Sharyl? It’s been great. Let us know what we’ve missed. Yeah, please. Let us know any, any tips or experiences that you’ve had. Right on. Okay. See y’all real soon. Thanks a lot. Thank you. Thanks. See you guys.

Thanks for listening to Harmonious Workplaces. You can find Harmonious Workplaces on LinkedIn, Twitter, YouTube, Spotify, Amazon, Apple, and other streaming platforms. We’d love any feedback on whatever channel you find us on. Please rate, like, and share our podcast with your network. And remember to add harmonious workplaces to your list of favorites.

To contact Rich or Sharyl, please visit www.workbalanceconsulting.com.
To connect with Ben, find him on LinkedIn, or visit www.harborsidestrategy.com.

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